Comments on: A Sendout Per Day… http://www.fordyceletter.com/2009/02/03/a-sendout-per-day%e2%80%a6/ Straight Talk for the Recruiting Profession Sat, 11 Feb 2012 10:59:00 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.2.1 By: Neil McNulty http://www.fordyceletter.com/2009/02/03/a-sendout-per-day%e2%80%a6/comment-page-1/#comment-3769 Neil McNulty Tue, 17 Feb 2009 19:12:16 +0000 http://www.fordyceletter.com/?p=1443#comment-3769 Tom, I think you have completely misunderstood all I have written. I have never "dismissed out of hand" anything. I said just two things: (1) sendouts are the basis of placements (one cannot make placements without them) and, (2) no matter what one's specialty is, if they get one sendout per day, they will make at least two placements per month. Where did I write that if someone gets less than a sendout per day, they cannot make two placements per month?? Re: my working all kinds of desks: as a manager, I have trained all types of desks, and then had to take over the desk of anyone who left. I had to work that desk until a replacement recruiter was trained; not "switching specialties all the time". Finally...I salute you for 600k cash in. That's outstanding, so what works for you is great. Tom,
I think you have completely misunderstood all I have written. I have never “dismissed out of hand” anything. I said just two things: (1) sendouts are the basis of placements (one cannot make placements without them) and, (2) no matter what one’s specialty is, if they get one sendout per day, they will make at least two placements per month. Where did I write that if someone gets less than a sendout per day, they cannot make two placements per month?? Re: my working all kinds of desks: as a manager, I have trained all types of desks, and then had to take over the desk of anyone who left. I had to work that desk until a replacement recruiter was trained; not “switching specialties all the time”. Finally…I salute you for 600k cash in. That’s outstanding, so what works for you is great.

]]> By: Keoughan, Tom http://www.fordyceletter.com/2009/02/03/a-sendout-per-day%e2%80%a6/comment-page-1/#comment-3766 Keoughan, Tom Tue, 17 Feb 2009 18:23:12 +0000 http://www.fordyceletter.com/?p=1443#comment-3766 Bottom Line – in some specialties a recruiter will not be able to make a sendout per day no matter how skilled he is or how hard he tries. I could argue that it’s not even desirable to do so but that’s a different discussion for a different day. Since you state that you would walk away from that sort of situation; I offer myself as an example of the type of business that you have dismissed out of hand. My average billings are around $600k. Often, I bill a little less but sometimes I bill a whole lot more. I average 2.6 – 2.7 placements per month but I certainly don’t make a sendout per day. If you were unable to make a sendout per day you state that “then you would fish in a bigger pond”. Well, okay – feel free to do it your way. Are more sendouts better than less sendouts? Generally, if they are high quality sendouts but that’s not any great revelation, that’s just basic math. As for me, I’m far more interested in final results (total cash in) than in any intermediate metric. I am certainly far, far from being the biggest, baddest recruiter out there and I know personally a dozen or so recruiters who bill more than I do on a regular basis. Also, I have not “supervised or worked almost every kind of desk there is”. I have been too successful in my niche for the last 28 years to have any interest in switching around all the time. One thing I have learned is that different areas of specialization, different geographic footprints, different economic climates and different situations often call for different strategies. It is helpful to have a large and varied tool chest. Not every tool will work equally as well on every job. Your program sounds a little too rigid and a little too narrowly focused. Some might chalk that up to your military background but you and I know better. The Marines allow for differences in the capabilities of their opponents, different terrain, different weather, and different political considerations as well as for fluidity on the ground. Although they may adapt different strategies and tactics from their toolkit to the situation at hand, they create different battle plans for different battles and also create contingency plans for when things go wrong (as they often do). I’m sure that you couldn’t be trying to argue that the same strategy will work equally well in all specialties and in all circumstances. I would like to apologize in advance; I am offline and in the real world at a trade show for the next few days and so will be unable to respond until late in the week. It’s unlikely that I will make any sendouts while I’m away but I suspect it will be quite positive for my business to be meeting with senior executives from current or potential clients despite not meeting “the daily metric”. Tom Keoughan www.toyjobs.com Bottom Line – in some specialties a recruiter will not be able to make a sendout per day no matter how skilled he is or how hard he tries. I could argue that it’s not even desirable to do so but that’s a different discussion for a different day. Since you state that you would walk away from that sort of situation; I offer myself as an example of the type of business that you have dismissed out of hand.

My average billings are around $600k. Often, I bill a little less but sometimes I bill a whole lot more. I average 2.6 – 2.7 placements per month but I certainly don’t make a sendout per day. If you were unable to make a sendout per day you state that “then you would fish in a bigger pond”. Well, okay – feel free to do it your way. Are more sendouts better than less sendouts? Generally, if they are high quality sendouts but that’s not any great revelation, that’s just basic math. As for me, I’m far more interested in final results (total cash in) than in any intermediate metric.

I am certainly far, far from being the biggest, baddest recruiter out there and I know personally a dozen or so recruiters who bill more than I do on a regular basis. Also, I have not “supervised or worked almost every kind of desk there is”. I have been too successful in my niche for the last 28 years to have any interest in switching around all the time. One thing I have learned is that different areas of specialization, different geographic footprints, different economic climates and different situations often call for different strategies. It is helpful to have a large and varied tool chest. Not every tool will work equally as well on every job.

Your program sounds a little too rigid and a little too narrowly focused. Some might chalk that up to your military background but you and I know better. The Marines allow for differences in the capabilities of their opponents, different terrain, different weather, and different political considerations as well as for fluidity on the ground. Although they may adapt different strategies and tactics from their toolkit to the situation at hand, they create different battle plans for different battles and also create contingency plans for when things go wrong (as they often do). I’m sure that you couldn’t be trying to argue that the same strategy will work equally well in all specialties and in all circumstances.

I would like to apologize in advance; I am offline and in the real world at a trade show for the next few days and so will be unable to respond until late in the week. It’s unlikely that I will make any sendouts while I’m away but I suspect it will be quite positive for my business to be meeting with senior executives from current or potential clients despite not meeting “the daily metric”.

Tom Keoughan
http://www.toyjobs.com

]]> By: Neil McNulty http://www.fordyceletter.com/2009/02/03/a-sendout-per-day%e2%80%a6/comment-page-1/#comment-3757 Neil McNulty Mon, 16 Feb 2009 15:09:49 +0000 http://www.fordyceletter.com/?p=1443#comment-3757 Craig, You and Dave are both in the stratosphere for production. If you take a sample of 1,000 search and placement professionals (at least five years of tenure) 900 of them cash in between 200k and 350k annually; 50 of them cash in between 300-500k, less than 30 cash in between 500-700k, and less than twenty cash in one million annually. Now, when you consider that of the thousands of people in our industry, 1/30th of them have five or more years of tenure...that frames your position as a superstar in this business. (Note: I realize many will ask "where do you get your figures??" My answer: "unscientific SWAG based on 25 years in the business". Have a great week! Craig,
You and Dave are both in the stratosphere for production. If you take a sample of 1,000 search and placement professionals (at least five years of tenure) 900 of them cash in between 200k and 350k annually; 50 of them cash in between 300-500k, less than 30 cash in between 500-700k, and less than twenty cash in one million annually. Now, when you consider that of the thousands of people in our industry, 1/30th of them have five or more years of tenure…that frames your position as a superstar in this business. (Note: I realize many will ask “where do you get your figures??” My answer: “unscientific SWAG based on 25 years in the business”. Have a great week!

]]> By: Craig Lindell http://www.fordyceletter.com/2009/02/03/a-sendout-per-day%e2%80%a6/comment-page-1/#comment-3739 Craig Lindell Sat, 14 Feb 2009 01:00:05 +0000 http://www.fordyceletter.com/?p=1443#comment-3739 Neil, when you wrote: Dave, those are fantastic “staats”, but you are in the top one tenth of one percent of the entire search and placement planet. Is that true? I’ve been billing between $660,000 and $730,000 the past three years. I’d like to accurately know what percentile that would rank me in the recruiting industry. Do any of you guys know what that would accurately be? I want to advertise that percentage to prospective new clients as well as existing ones! Neil, I absolutely love your thinking! For years we would track our send outs in a book that contained 21 send outs per sheet of paper over 15 years with two exceptions we would highlight 2-8 of those sendups as placements. Fill out a sheet each month and you have to placements!!! I like your philosophy!!! It’s been encouraging to read what you all have to say!!! Thank you, Craig Next time I'll proofread before sent it! I used DragonDictate!!! Neil, when you wrote: Dave, those are fantastic “staats”, but you are in the top one tenth of one percent of the entire search and placement planet. Is that true? I’ve been billing between $660,000 and $730,000 the past three years. I’d like to accurately know what percentile that would rank me in the recruiting industry. Do any of you guys know what that would accurately be? I want to advertise that percentage to prospective new clients as well as existing ones!

Neil, I absolutely love your thinking! For years we would track our send outs in a book that contained 21 send outs per sheet of paper over 15 years with two exceptions we would highlight 2-8 of those sendups as placements. Fill out a sheet each month and you have to placements!!! I like your philosophy!!!

It’s been encouraging to read what you all have to say!!!

Thank you,

Craig

Next time I’ll proofread before sent it! I used DragonDictate!!!

]]> By: Neil McNulty http://www.fordyceletter.com/2009/02/03/a-sendout-per-day%e2%80%a6/comment-page-1/#comment-3737 Neil McNulty Fri, 13 Feb 2009 21:56:27 +0000 http://www.fordyceletter.com/?p=1443#comment-3737 Had I known I was going to stir up the pot this much, I would have had second thoughts about writing the article. I did not write there is only one way to do this business, I wrote there is only one way to make placements: sendouts. (If someone figures out how to make placements without people talking to each other, they need to keep it to themselves or we are out of business). I also stand by my statement that a sendout per day equals at least two placements per month, and I do not care what the specialty is. I have supervised or worked almost every kind of desk there is. If one's pond is too small for a sendout per day, then I would fish in a bigger pond. Had I known I was going to stir up the pot this much, I would have had second thoughts about writing the article. I did not write there is only one way to do this business, I wrote there is only one way to make placements: sendouts. (If someone figures out how to make placements without people talking to each other, they need to keep it to themselves or we are out of business). I also stand by my statement that a sendout per day equals at least two placements per month, and I do not care what the specialty is. I have supervised or worked almost every kind of desk there is. If one’s pond is too small for a sendout per day, then I would fish in a bigger pond.

]]> By: Keoughan, Tom http://www.fordyceletter.com/2009/02/03/a-sendout-per-day%e2%80%a6/comment-page-1/#comment-3736 Keoughan, Tom Fri, 13 Feb 2009 21:39:54 +0000 http://www.fordyceletter.com/?p=1443#comment-3736 So much of this has to do with a recruiter’s marketplace. What is the area of specialization? What is the geographic footprint? What is the economic climate? If you focus on a vertical niche such as IT, Accounting, etc then this sort of strategy could work well. It’s very much what a lot of IT recruiters were doing in the late 90s until the bubble burst. Unfortunately, when it did they didn’t know how to work any other way and soon had to leave the business. Since you’re a recruiter who specializes in placing ex-military people that likely means vertical specializations in Logistics, Accounting, and perhaps IT. This sort of strategy could work very well in that type of space. If you focus is a horizontal industry specialization, then it will likely (but not necessarily) work out differently. If I were to make 20-30 MPC calls per day for a week; I wouldn’t have anyone to call the following week, at least in a geographic area that the candidate would agree to. Within a month I would have the entire industry covered on a nationwide basis. Maybe for your industry it would be 3 weeks…or 6….but you get the idea. The same is true of sendouts. I would love to make a sendout per day but in my area of specialization that is not going to happen. You’ll just have to trust me, but those who know me, know that I am not inexperienced, lazy or unmotivated. In my little pond, companies are not going to hire or even want to spend time interviewing someone unless they absolutely screamingly need them. That is even more the case today. Most companies currently have fewer people bail the boat. Nobody has time to interview more bailers. If they could afford more bailers - they wouldn’t have thrown “Fred” to the sharks. I’ve been pitching “upgrade your staff” for nearly 28 years and almost every senior executive I speak to finds it “an interesting idea” but almost none of them actually do it. For my area of specialization, it’s all about filling holes. I’ve gotten very good at that. The point is that there is no single magic key. There are lots of ways up the mountain and they are very dependent on their area of specialization, geographic footprint, the economic climate AND indeed what mountain it is that you are trying to go up. Lot’s of “quality” activity will tend to lead to lots of success across the board, but “quality” is an integral part of the equation and success is in no way guaranteed. Adhering to a dogma that there is only one way to tackle what can be very different situations is….less helpful. Life (and certainly the recruiting business) is more complex than that. Different tools for different jobs. If your way works for you – that’s fantastic but it is oversimplified to say it will work for everyone. Tom Keoughan www.toyjobs.com So much of this has to do with a recruiter’s marketplace. What is the area of specialization? What is the geographic footprint? What is the economic climate? If you focus on a vertical niche such as IT, Accounting, etc then this sort of strategy could work well. It’s very much what a lot of IT recruiters were doing in the late 90s until the bubble burst. Unfortunately, when it did they didn’t know how to work any other way and soon had to leave the business. Since you’re a recruiter who specializes in placing ex-military people that likely means vertical specializations in Logistics, Accounting, and perhaps IT. This sort of strategy could work very well in that type of space.

If you focus is a horizontal industry specialization, then it will likely (but not necessarily) work out differently. If I were to make 20-30 MPC calls per day for a week; I wouldn’t have anyone to call the following week, at least in a geographic area that the candidate would agree to. Within a month I would have the entire industry covered on a nationwide basis. Maybe for your industry it would be 3 weeks…or 6….but you get the idea.

The same is true of sendouts. I would love to make a sendout per day but in my area of specialization that is not going to happen. You’ll just have to trust me, but those who know me, know that I am not inexperienced, lazy or unmotivated. In my little pond, companies are not going to hire or even want to spend time interviewing someone unless they absolutely screamingly need them. That is even more the case today. Most companies currently have fewer people bail the boat. Nobody has time to interview more bailers. If they could afford more bailers – they wouldn’t have thrown “Fred” to the sharks. I’ve been pitching “upgrade your staff” for nearly 28 years and almost every senior executive I speak to finds it “an interesting idea” but almost none of them actually do it. For my area of specialization, it’s all about filling holes. I’ve gotten very good at that.

The point is that there is no single magic key. There are lots of ways up the mountain and they are very dependent on their area of specialization, geographic footprint, the economic climate AND indeed what mountain it is that you are trying to go up.
Lot’s of “quality” activity will tend to lead to lots of success across the board, but “quality” is an integral part of the equation and success is in no way guaranteed. Adhering to a dogma that there is only one way to tackle what can be very different situations is….less helpful. Life (and certainly the recruiting business) is more complex than that. Different tools for different jobs. If your way works for you – that’s fantastic but it is oversimplified to say it will work for everyone.

Tom Keoughan
http://www.toyjobs.com

]]> By: Neil McNulty http://www.fordyceletter.com/2009/02/03/a-sendout-per-day%e2%80%a6/comment-page-1/#comment-3735 Neil McNulty Fri, 13 Feb 2009 19:27:06 +0000 http://www.fordyceletter.com/?p=1443#comment-3735 Dave, those are fantastic "staats", but you are in the top one tenth of one percent of the entire search and placement planet. I have great respect for you. In your best year (139), you averaged three sendouts per week (139/50). If you are doing search work, three sendouts equals a placement for a star producer...which you are. No battle...just the two ways of doing this business (search, and placement). Dave, those are fantastic “staats”, but you are in the top one tenth of one percent of the entire search and placement planet. I have great respect for you. In your best year (139), you averaged three sendouts per week (139/50). If you are doing search work, three sendouts equals a placement for a star producer…which you are. No battle…just the two ways of doing this business (search, and placement).

]]> By: Dave Staats http://www.fordyceletter.com/2009/02/03/a-sendout-per-day%e2%80%a6/comment-page-1/#comment-3734 Dave Staats Fri, 13 Feb 2009 18:57:33 +0000 http://www.fordyceletter.com/?p=1443#comment-3734 Sorry if this feels like a battle. We are not THAT far apart in philosophy but here are my numbers. 6 yrs. 517 sendouts total. Most in 1 year 139. Average revenue for those years 425k. With those call amounts I already mentioned. Not saying this can't coexist with other things...but it is what it is...that's all... Sorry if this feels like a battle. We are not THAT far apart in philosophy but here are my numbers. 6 yrs. 517 sendouts total. Most in 1 year 139. Average revenue for those years 425k. With those call amounts I already mentioned. Not saying this can’t coexist with other things…but it is what it is…that’s all…

]]> By: Neil McNulty http://www.fordyceletter.com/2009/02/03/a-sendout-per-day%e2%80%a6/comment-page-1/#comment-3732 Neil McNulty Fri, 13 Feb 2009 16:18:27 +0000 http://www.fordyceletter.com/?p=1443#comment-3732 If it takes just five calls to get a sendout, that's great. 100 calls is what a rookie should plan for...experienced people should rarely need more than twenty calls to get a sendout. The whole point is if you arrange meetings between great candidates and hirers, you will make placements. One meeting per day, 20 per month, results in two placements for the month...always. (All who do not believe me...test it. Commit to making one sendout per day for one month). I wrote this article because I'm getting contacted regularly by people who are struggling. They all have one thing in common: "search". In my world, contingency search is dead...too many people like myself out there who know how to drop in a great candidate out of nowhere and ruin the searcher's popcorn. I would much rather make two 15k fees per month marketing MPCs than than one 30k fee "doing search". If it takes just five calls to get a sendout, that’s great. 100 calls is what a rookie should plan for…experienced people should rarely need more than twenty calls to get a sendout. The whole point is if you arrange meetings between great candidates and hirers, you will make placements. One meeting per day, 20 per month, results in two placements for the month…always. (All who do not believe me…test it. Commit to making one sendout per day for one month). I wrote this article because I’m getting contacted regularly by people who are struggling. They all have one thing in common: “search”. In my world, contingency search is dead…too many people like myself out there who know how to drop in a great candidate out of nowhere and ruin the searcher’s popcorn. I would much rather make two 15k fees per month marketing MPCs than than one 30k fee “doing search”.

]]> By: Dave Staats http://www.fordyceletter.com/2009/02/03/a-sendout-per-day%e2%80%a6/comment-page-1/#comment-3731 Dave Staats Fri, 13 Feb 2009 15:58:36 +0000 http://www.fordyceletter.com/?p=1443#comment-3731 I like your ideas Neil, but a sendout a day is nuts in MY market. I completely agree with Chris' comments on that subject. Also, in 22 years I don't know if I ever made 100 calls once. I just never did it that way. Early in my career I always figured Danny Cahill and the others were just plain liars. I learned later they are not and that his people (many of whom are good friends now) actually do that many calls. I probably average 20 or 30 calls and if I can average 120 to 150 minutes a day on the phone I am perfectly happy... Finally even a Sendout a week at 30k average fee gets 375k revenue at a fairly loose 4 to 1 SO to Placement ratio. I like your ideas Neil, but a sendout a day is nuts in MY market. I completely agree with Chris’ comments on that subject.
Also, in 22 years I don’t know if I ever made 100 calls once. I just never did it that way. Early in my career I always figured Danny Cahill and the others were just plain liars. I learned later they are not and that his people (many of whom are good friends now) actually do that many calls.
I probably average 20 or 30 calls and if I can average 120 to 150 minutes a day on the phone I am perfectly happy…
Finally even a Sendout a week at 30k average fee gets 375k revenue at a fairly loose 4 to 1 SO to Placement ratio.

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